Dear staff and Members

[waffle]

Ok I would first like to clear something up. I have nothing against this site or the staff that runs it, but I feel like there is an issue that needs to be addressed. The combat systems and the hunger games in general are in no partial sense realistic. I acknowledge that this is fantasy but really in this year's games there was a tribute that had their legs burned off and somehow survived and made 2nd or 1st place. I also know that the randomizer makes things fair for everyone, but I think it’s to fair. In reality if you got your legs burned off at the knees would you be able to physically and emotionally be able to effectively move around and to kill your ally? No, you would be in shock and your wound would get infected and you would die. Look it up burns are very easily infected if not treated properly. There have been various other discrepancies in these games like in the first games a volcano erupted and melted snow in like what a 15 mile radius. That is one magic volcano! The winning tribute Arbor Halt who was blind entering the games would have died at that point. He would have been able to sense the water flowing but would he be able to move to the cornucopia and reach high ground? No chance at all, he would have no idea where it was and he would've drowned. At some point I think a staff member should just tell a tribute that they are dead because they are so wounded they can’t really do anything. I am open to criticism, but I think my point is sound. It might be the case that you are going for total outlandish laugh out loud funny, but I think you are going for the spirit of the books which is quite serious. So staff I would just like to say if you are going for at least some realizim then you are far from it.

Sincerely-Waffle

[Not him again! [BME]]

Okay, i may not be in the list of the top hundred most supportive people in the world, but i know that a large amount of time and work went into these Games. You said it yourself, this is a fantasy board. But that doesnt mean you have to go around hatin' on it. You dont go around criticizing the things that very dedicated and talented staff put countless hours into. The combat system is better than ive seen anywhere else. If you think you have half the talent or commitment that they have, bucko, then make your own god damn board.

All the best,
BME

[waffle]

uuuum ok that was seriously intense. I'm not going to argue with any one. I acknowledge that this is very controvertial, and you are intitled to your opinion. Please dont blatently insult me just because you don't agree with me. I am not mad at any one I just wanted to voice my opinion.

Waffle

[Not him again! [BME]]

If you can get your say i can get mine. i have not attempted to offend you but i believe you have offended the staff of this site. not tryin' to hate, just sayin. i respect the staff of this site, and it ticks me off to see disrespect. maybe i took your post the wrong way. all i would like to say, dont be dissin' theyre doing the best they can.

[phunke]

Hey guys!
While I see both of your standpoints (side note: please be as courteous as possible and respect others' views without getting snippy - and by the way, I don't think the staff will be offended by this, as it is a serious and reasonable inquiry), I'm just going to reply directly to Waffle's original point.
I believe that, composed as it is of teenagers, the Games in the books AND here are mostly based on sheer randomness. Yes, career training would help someone learn how to be more coordinated and physically fit, and teach them muscle memory for handling a weapon; but who's to say that that same person - a teenager, someone whose emotional composition hasn't yet stabilized - would hold up to the stress of forcing themself to fight and kill human beings? Some careers in THG seemed like killing machines but as we saw with Cato, that was just a coping mechanism that gave way to his craziness when things got stressful. So that's why I think that there's no way for any one tribute to have a true advantage above the rest to the point where they should be 'allowed' to live in a situation where someone without that 'advantage' would die. (Sorry if this doesn't make much sense...)

As for these Games, Heron (the girl who got her legs burned off) survived thus far because she had an extremely kind and loyal ally who carried her everywhere, held her up to fight, and finally, told her to kill him. If you read the thread, Storm kept within Heron's reach and was deliberately allowing her to attack him. Is this a probable scenario? No. Is it impossible? No.
I can't tell you anything about the volcano that melted snow because I wasn't here for those games, but it seems at least plausible depending on the magnitude of the eruption - pyroclastic flow, the hot stuff that comes from erupting volcanoes, can travel for miles and I'm sure it would heat up the air, at least temporarily, in a radius a few miles wider than that.
As for Arbor being able to evade the water, you'll have to ask Aya about that - I don't remember how close/far he was from the Cornucopia. But from what I've heard, blind people tend to have extremely finessed non-vision senses that can lead them to interpret the world as much as a person with sight can and pick up on little things - like a change in topography, for instance, that could allow the finding of higher ground - that most people cannot detect.

Hope that was at least a somewhat cogent explanation as to why I find your points valid, but perhaps a bit too desirous of wanting things to happen as they are likely to happen, whereas on the site we push to enable even unlikely possibilities (for entertainment value).

--phunke

[aya]

Dear Waffle,

I understand the place that your criticism is coming from, as both the staff member who typically shoulders the the heavy responsibility of Head Gamemaker and the owner of the character you've criticized by name, and will thus respond to your criticism, regardless of the fact that your open letter was neither a question nor a suggestion, as the board calls for. You are correct in your analysis that the Games here are not intended to be a satire, although some aspects of them (random events, for one) have a tendency to take on a more lighthearted, jocular nature. They are not strictly serious and solemn event — after all, the primary purpose is fun for the members and the site as a whole.

I would first like to address your very broad assertion that “The combat systems and the hunger games in general are in no partial sense realistic.” I understand that the level playing field provides room for people with missing limbs or other physical deficits to perform just as well as those who are able-bodied and tactically prepared to participate in combat, and this does slightly detract from the realism of the Games, as you’ve pointed out. However, trying to slant the currently implemented dice-roll system in any manner would add a whole new slew of confusing rules and constraints that would completely baffle even the more veteran members of the site, and lead to accusations of favoritism and finger-pointing when battles more frequently came out strongly in the favor of those tributes whom are given preferential treatment by the more complex system. I am positive that I could devise such a system if I deemed it to be effective; however, the headache it would cause not just the membership, but everyone attempting to understand the Games (and this includes the rest of the staff and myself) would certainly not be worth the partial advantage it gave to the able-bodied or even Career tributes.

On that note, I would like to address the impossibility of having a provision in the rules that specifically allows staff (or, at least the Head Gamemaker) from declaring a tribute to be dead, for the simple reason that it seems like “they can’t really do anything.” There is a strong interest in fairness, as I have noted, and tributes taking deficits to where “they can’t really do anything” are still allowed to not “do anything,” as you say, until they’ve been killed. That is, for example, Heron from these 57th Games — whom you mentioned (although not by name) — has no legs below the knee at this point, as you noted. What Heron is not able to do without legs (walking, for example) is not permitted. You may have not noticed that she was previously carried around by her ally, and, as he is dead now, is no longer moving anywhere. This has little effect on her ability to wield a knife, and does inhibit her from eating, drinking, or staying alive in general. There is a 40 point cap on damage that tributes are allowed to take for a reason — it keeps it fair. If staff were allowed to say that tributes were dead simply because “they can’t really do anything,” it would defeat the purpose of this system entirely.

This leads me to my next point, in regards to your (grammatically awful) statements that “In reality if you got your legs burned off at the knees [you] would...[not] be able to physically and emotionally be able to effectively move around and to kill your ally” and that “you would be in shock and your wound would get infected and you would die” along with your (rude) suggestion that I “Look it up[sic] burns are very easily infected if not treated properly.” First and foremost, I would like to state that I do not actually need to look this up, as I’ve taken a total of four medical courses as of my writing this, complete with several units on first aid and injuries. I am fully aware that not all of the wounds that occur in the Games are handled as realistically as possible; however, in actuality, the human body is much more resilient than the standard first aid guidelines suggest, where the focus is on stabilization of the victim for more advanced care at medical facilities. In a Hunger Games scenario, however, where the only hope of any more advanced medical treatment is victory, tributes are forced to push themselves, and, with the aid of allies (as many tributes with such severe injuries, like Heron, have had) can be fairly well stabilized. In more recent Games (or, at least, for the 57th) there has been an effort to add a bit more medical realism, as you may have noticed wounds occasionally becoming infected or turning gangrenous to the point where the tribute (Katie, the other finalist for these Games) was forced to amputate it or take extra damage every new day. However, if all the tributes were to have similar fates, the Games would be very uninteresting indeed.

Imagine, for a moment, that we implemented your idea of killing off tributes when “they can’t really do anything” while simultaneously attempted to uphold the strict amount of medical realism that you are demanding. We would be forced to kill off all of the tributes before long, and there would be absolutely no sense of fairness whatsoever — the Games would be anticlimactic, dull, and the victor would be chosen completely at the Head Gamemaker’s whim. How is this any better than the current system we have in place? Frankly, it isn’t — we would be much worse off in under your suggested revisions.

Before my response to you grows far too long, I would like to address your claims of “discrepancy” that occurred during the 54th Hunger Games, as (and I understand that I do this) I have a tendency to take it as a personal attack every time someone argues with Arbor’s victory (this being the reason why I didn’t want to win in the first place.) First off, no, the volcano in the 54th Hunger Games did not melt the snow; it erupted, causing the temperature of the air to rise to the point where the snow melted naturally and gradually. There was no reason for Arbor to have died at that point in particular, as there would not be enough slush or water on the ground to make much of an impact; he wouldn’t have drowned, if that’s what you’re suggesting. The finale took place in the vicinity of the Cornucopia, yes, but that had very little bearing on the outcome of the fight; it would’ve been the same had it happened in the forest, the tundra, or anywhere else in that Arena.

We’ve addressed the matter as much as needed, and there are no adjustments to our system planned at this time, aside from the minor tweaks that we invariably make from Hunger Games to Hunger Games.

Aya
Site Administrator, Head Gamemaker

[/blockquote][/justify]

[Deleted]

apcentral.collegeboard.com/apc/public/repository/ap09_frq_english_language.pdf
Last page, please.

Yes, CollegeBoard is awesome. Especially if you want to go to college.

[waffle]

(Aya I didn't make about 4 of the gramical misstakes you said I did) I think you all have good points. For the record I was not trying to offend the characters themselves. I also was not trying to offend the staff either it is just how I feel. I was also informed before I wrote my first post about Heron being caried by Storm. I am not going to restate what I still believe, but you guys have some good points.

Waffle

[Prince Inigo]

I felt the need to spend some time on this topic instead of studying, because I know we had this discussion on the cbox, Waffle.

There is a difference between an average or probability than a for-sure situation, and I feel that this is what is going on.

You say that if Heron had her legs burnt off in real life, she would (let me bold this for emphasis of what you said) have her wound infected and she would die. First off, as I've said in the cbox, there have been accounts in war where limbs were amputated and blown off, and even gxk gave you a personal account of someone who did cut off their limb (to survive, mind you). They lived, and you said that it was because they had medical support, probably. Understandable. So why does this not apply to Heron when she had Storm? If anything, Storm would have been able to support her, emotionally and physically, with the wound, and thus she might be able to cope with her loss of legs. Another thing is that, with the war example, if, say, the limbs were gone due to a shell, don't you think dirt would have gotten in that wound? Just being exposed in the open invites viruses and bacteria, and it doesn't take that long for them to enter.

So why does that not apply to Heron? And, yes, you also said she would have died due to blood loss, but I'm pretty sure there are effective means to steady the flow enough for her to survive until proper medical attention (i.e. the Capitol) was given to her.

And even if you want to throw this all into the subject of 'oh it's not realistic enough', yeah, we've taken the liberty to make things slightly unrealistic - all in the concentration for fairness. Because, let me get this straight: under your rules, all Tributes not the Careers would die, right? After all, they would have the least likely chance to do anything, considering that they are not trained, lack all skills a Career would have when they were 12 (let's say that this Tribute in particular is 18), and lack support and money for their survival. I think this would fall under 'not being able to do anything'; and, certainly if I wanted to cut off time (if I was ever a Gamemaker), I would kill all non-Career Tributes, because, after all, they're not skilled and are just a bunch of wasted time. Why would I want to see the death of someone I know is just going to die to a Career?

Oh, but that would not be fair/not what I was saying/would be no fun. Exactly.

Also, if suggesting that Arbor would drown, couldn't he just flail around in the water? I'd say that would give him maybe an inch or two if he at least tried. The buoyancy force (haha physics) would help him stay somewhat afloat. Now, let's give some math here because I love math: Arbor is most likely (I can't see his height because Aya deleted the app; thanks a lot, Aya >.> ) between higher-five feet and lower-six feet or is between the ranges of 65 inches to 77 inches (5'5"-6'5", as most males on this site are between these ranges). That is a lot of frickin' water, and all in one area? and all from melting snow? I'd think the other person would drown too if he was not 7'0". Let's also add that this would have to around the entire Arena unless the area Arbor was in was enclosed. Water is not that mean; it doesn't stay in one area and not anywhere else (open space) because it wants to. It would only stay in one place due to being enclosed, the pressures (water can move due to different pressures, such as an artificial pressure created by a vacuum or pump to where atmospheric pressure is greater than said vacuum or pump; thanks, physics!), and more.

But I never did read those Games, so excuse me if I'm ignorant.

As I've stated, we have taken liberties to make some aspects unrealistic, but we have at least three staff (Aya, Lulu, myself) that are interested in one science minimum, so it's not like we're going to make this unrealistic as possible; but, in the interest of fairness and giving everyone a chance, we have made the fighting system a dice-roll. Anything else, as Aya puts it, we'd have accusations of favoritism and finger-pointing.

To sum this all up: I'd like to say to not underestimate the human body. Under adrenaline and the will to survive, they can endure what usually equals death under normal circumstances.

End note: there is a difference between getting stabbed in the heart (instant death, very likely) and getting infected (depends on medical care, immunity system, and overall health).


-- Luna

[Mira]

Adding realism to RPs are generally difficult to do. It usually results in one of two things: a stat based system or a player based system.

With a stat based system it’s much easier to manage to and maintain. It’s clear and concise, allowing for little power-playing or abuse, it just limits the player’s ability to Role-Play in some cases, especially when it comes to individual advantages and disadvantages. Stat based systems are usually applied so that it works well for average characters, but hinders characters who are above average (aka, enhanced abilities/skills) and helps weaker characters (such as those with little strength or slow speed). It’s usually not a favorable system, but it’s a good system to utilize when there are a lot of people on the site or a lot of characters in play.

With a player based system it’s harder to manage and keep track of, but it allows players more freedoms with their RPing. This system is faulty though because it allows plenty of chances for people to abuse their abilities and god-mod, but it can be adapted to each individual character. The main thing with this though is that it’s limited to what the player knows. Since everyone knows different things or has higher or lower understandings of things it becomes difficult to judge if something is acceptable or not. These systems are usually for sites with lower member count and fewer characters in play.

Ever wonder why most big sites usually have some kind of stat or number based system for things? It’s because they have a lot of members and usually a lot of members means that you have a lot of characters in play. The staff on bigger sites are also much bigger, but they’re still human and there are still more members than staff. That creates the problem of how battles can be judged because there are so many battles going on with so many different characters that all have different abilities and tactics. It’s much easier to use a stat based system because then it’s clear who’s at fault and who isn’t.

On smaller sites you don’t see a lot of stat based systems because the number of staff at hand and members are balanced out so it’s not too much of a hassle to go through the battles and read them all one by one and examine each character’s strengths and weaknesses to see if someone did something wrong. It’s more work, but it’s not too much work that the staff will be overwhelmed.

Personally, I hate stat based systems, but I don’t the mind the one here. To be honest, the one that’s implanted here still gives everyone a lot of freedoms. Most sites that I’ve seen that use stat based systems use it pretty heavily and it’s more of a drag to RP, which is why I never join them. It’s a drag to RP because the system allows for little creativity. It’s a pretty cut and dry way of fighting and the only real fun is doing social RPs. It’s either that or they have too many rules and it’s too confusing for a new member to understand and the staff and members get annoyed with having to explain how the system works. At least here it’s pretty simple and slight adjustments can be made as needed, depending on the situation.

I come from a history of RP sites that use the later method, but that’s probably because the sites I’m on aren’t very big. (And I’m actually a member of staff on some of those sites, so I do know that it takes a lot of effort for the staff to even bother checking RPs considering the many other things they have to do.) Our sites were pretty small so we didn’t mind going over a thread when someone asked us to and when we held events that involved battles we didn’t mind modding them either because they were only a few we had to look over and we were already familiar with some of the characters, the others we weren’t familiar with we could look up to review the battle. One mod could moderate three or four battles, since there were really never any more than two or three at a time on the whole site that didn’t already have someone on staff fighting in it. We didn’t really need to devote anyone to a specific job as RP/Battle Mod. We had more mods focused on creation, plot, or behind the scenes stuff.

But here… imagine the Hunger Games alone. I know most of the fighting that does take place is usually going to be in the Hunger Games, but I wouldn’t be surprised if there are some skirmishes here and there outside of the Games. The Hunger Games have at least 24 characters all trying to kill each other. Now, imagine if there was no stat based system and it was player based, and say that 20 out of those 24 characters are in a fight at the same time, which is pretty possible since it’s easier to kill someone when there are other people trying to kill the same person. So, you have one thread with five people in it where it’s two against three, another thread with two people where it’s one on one, another thread with six people and it’s one against five, let’s stop here for now. That’s already difficult to keep up with, and that’s only what, 13 people so far? And that’s only in the Hunger Games. What about the other fights in other areas that arise from time to time?

The staff obviously has to keep track of these threads to make sure no one does something illegal, but in order to that they have to take into consideration each character’s history, personality, appearance, age, and skills. You might think they only have to pay attention to skills, but you’re wrong. If a character is normally very strong, but has always been afraid to use his strength because he’s harmed so many people by it by accident he’s not going to willingly go in and use it to kill everyone he can just because he’s fighting for his life. You’re going to say ‘But the Hunger Games changes people’, but that’s not 100% true. Just because you’re in a sick game fighting for your life doesn’t mean you’re going to loose all of your morals and habits. Smoking three or four packs a day is a bad habit that could kill you, but just because it’s bad and you’ve just been told if you don’t stop you’re going to die means you are. You’re going to try maybe, but it’s hard. It’s not going to happen overnight. Same thing with the Hunger Games. You may be inclined to start killing people in order to live, but that doesn’t mean you’re going to become a cold-blooded killer overnight. Then there’s the matter of your appearance… What if a girl who’s only 4 ft tall and weighs like 70 pounds posts that she’s pinning a guy who’s 6 ft tall and at least 150 lbs down? Is that possible considering how small she is? The guy is taller than her and twice her weight, how is she pinning him down? A lot of factors come in to play when you leave it up for the players to determine if they injured someone, let alone kill them. That’s why stat based systems are usually used for big sites.

Then there’s also the matter that what you and I know about the physics of the world is very limited. Most people who RP are generally teens, perhaps young adults and a couple of pre-teens (I’ve never really been on a RP site where anyone’s actually in their late twenties or anything). That being said, most of us will all have a pretty basic knowledge of things work in real life—theories based on what we know from experience, what we read about, what we’ve been taught, what hear and see happen to other people, and of course, from movies. The only thing we can really be 100% sure about and understand is when we personally experience because then writing it is much easier and we can draw off of our own experiences to make it more realistic. Everything else, even if we read about it from a textbook or learn about it from an expert, we can only really guess about. {This you can clearly see between posts from everyone who’s posted here who all have different understandings of how the world works, if you’d like some examples.}

I myself have never had broken bones or any serious injuries like that. The most I’ve ever gotten are bruises—and that’s from being stupid and not paying attention what I’m doing so it’s only small bruises. So if I tried to RP about broken bones or even a sprain or burn, I have no idea where to start. I just draw off of what I think I know and how I interpret something I read off of wikipedia or a medical site, I’d likely RP that I’m feeling excruciating pain but asides from that… I have no idea what else to put. I’d be winging it and hoping it doesn’t sound too outrageous. Now, someone else who has had a broken bone before will be able to RP it pretty convincingly. So, you leave it up to players and say one of them actually knows a lot about medical procedures because their family is involved with it so they get firsthand experience with it, more than you or I at any rate, and you barely know a thing and the other player they’re fighting has little more than a first-aid knowledge of it, who’s right? If you say that the medical player is right the first-aid player is going to say that you’re showing favoritism. If you say that you’re right the medical player is going to go dig up facts that prove they’re right because they know they’re right and they know there’s plenty of evidence to prove it, what then? This creates a whole new problem altogether. What first started off as a simple ‘Can you check this fight? I don’t think he should be able to recover from that attack, but he insists that he can.’ turns into a ‘I’m right, you’re wrong because I say so.’ fight that will more or less cause more problems all over the site because human nature is to lash out when you’ve been wronged.

Anyway, moving on since I think I’ve overstressed how difficult it is to manage large sites, you have to keep in mind something else that none of you seemed to bring up. The site is based off of a trilogy that takes place in the future. The story doesn’t say how many years later it is from our current timeframe, but it’s likely to be several years in the future, maybe even centuries considering that humankind is reduced to the occupation of one land mass—the Americas. In addition to that, there are several advances in technology. I know that in today’s world gene experimentation is still undergoing research and yielding some results here and there, but for the most part it’s not being explored too in depth (or so we’re told) because of moral ethics, so something like the creation or mutation of a species on a wide-scale basis is probably not happening right now. But in the books it apparently is quite common and doesn’t bring up issues. (Then again, I could be wrong considering I’ve only read the first two books.) The Districts aren’t as advanced as the Capitol, we all know that, but we also know that the Capitol is capable of many things. They have a highly advanced study of science, seeing as they can create entirely new species that will do exactly as they wish, as seen with the jabberjays and tracker jackers, hell they even do it for fun considering the Hunger Games are for fun. There’s also the matter of the alterations of their body, Katniss has, on several accounts, noted that she’s worried the Capitol will do something strange with her like give her claws or whiskers like a cat, and so forth. She also notes how strange the Capitol citizens are with their appearance. I know there are things with hair dyes, tattoos, and so forth, but the way she talks gives me the impression that it’s something more than just that. The Capitol people don’t just look different, they’re exotic. And these are only fractions of what the Capitol can do seeing as the story is told from the perspective of a person who knows next to nothing about the Capitol itself.

What I’m pointing out from this is that some of the things that happen in the book where we go ‘That’s not likely to happen in real life…’ might actually very well be possible within the setting of the books. Like Haymitch and his Hunger Games. He had his intestines coming out in a bloody mess, asides from whatever else he might have suffered through leading up to that. It’s more than likely that if it were in this world, the way the Hunger Games are ran (from what we know as a participant because we don’t see it from the Gamemaker’s view), he would’ve likely not survived, or if he did he’d have complications, complications that Haymitch doesn’t seem to have at the slightest (and I don’t just mean his drinking problem).

So, that brings up the parts where you get your legs chopped off and win the Hunger Games or that you’re blind and you survive a volcanic eruption and flooding, as well as the possibility of a volcanic eruption melting snow in a 15 mile radius.

First off, the volcano can be more than possible. Remember, the Hunger Games are run by the Gamemakers. They can make anything happen. In the books, it’s pretty clear that the Gamemakers can do whatever they want. They could save a Tribute’s life if they wanted or deliberately kill them or maim them for life. It’s merely a matter of when, why and if. If it’s going to increase viewers, hell yeah they’re going to do it. The Games are merely a source of entertainment, not a bloody, legalized murder field. Remember that. If people actually cared about the legalized murdering that’s part of it the games would have stopped or been petitioned by the time it got to Katniss’ generation considering it’s the 75th Game, 75 years of having the games alongside of the Quarter Quells.

Maybe in real life the volcano would only melt snow in a few miles, if that at all, but in the Hunger Games the Gamemakers could’ve set up the arena so that additional heat is provided to make sure all of that snow melts to create more of a problem for the Tributes. It could simply be a ‘Hey, if they don’t get burned to death by the volcano, they can drown themselves in the melting snow!’ kind of thing because there are too many tributes still alive in the game or they’re just that bored and want to watch the Tributes struggle for their lives. They purposefully burned down part of the arena just to flush out the Tributes and make them fight each other in book 1.

As for getting your legs burned off… and still living. That’s possible if you think about it some. Cutting your legs off would be a worse choice seeing as you’d have to find a way to stop the bleeding and infection and so forth, but if you burn your legs off to that degree… well your nerves are probably going to be damaged beyond repair so you probably can’t even feel your legs or the pain it brings after the first initial burns. Then there’s also the matter that what’s left of your legs could just very well be several layers of charred, burned, and dead skin/muscle/fat or half charred, which could more or less prevent you from dying of blood loss, something you’d have to worry about if you had them cut off. And let’s say you get infected, your body will naturally try to fight it off, but the body has its own systems where it will cut itself off from doing certain things in order to keep you alive. When it comes down to it, all your body cares about is keeping you alive for as long as possible, whether you’re conscious or not, which is also why there are things like adrenaline and endorphins that help ward off pain or give us superhuman strength at times (a very limited amount of time with it’s own drawbacks of course). (Why else do you think humans have evolved and changed so much compared to all the other creatures on Earth?) So it is pretty possible they could’ve survived somehow. You also have to remember that most of these Tributes have lived a life full of starvation and exhaustion. Their bodies are definitely different than yours or mine. Can you imagine trying to live the way they normally live for just a week?

And there’s the blind character part. I’ll say this once: STOP UNDERESTIMATING PEOPLE BECAUSE THEY’RE BLIND! I’ve seen this way too much. On another site I was on (it’s Naruto based by the way) someone made a blind character and gave his little 12 year old, blind guy a lot of abilities like being able to use abilities (jutsus/techniques) too strong for him or making him extremely smart (like giving him a fifty-year old’s experience) and when I told him he had to change it he more or less told me ‘But he’s blind. If I don’t do that he’s going to die.’ My answer is simple ‘Don’t make a blind character expecting to be able to have a lot of advantages then! Deal with it. You can’t give him a lot of special abilities JUST because he’s blind.’ Why? Because in real life if you’re born blind or rendered blind at a young age you learn how to cope with it. Your other senses are much stronger and keener than other peoples. You learn that certain patterns arise and you know things that other people don’t know because they rely too much on eyesight. In all honesty, most of us here follow a ‘If I can’t see it, I don’t believe it.’ because we really do rely on eyesight too much. In total darkness, most of us would just stay wherever the hell we are. Someone who’s blind who has no sense of dark or light will still move and try to find their way around because it’s not any different to them. Just because you’re blind or deaf or mute or missing a leg or arm doesn’t mean you’re helpless and unable to do anything at all. The human body has incredible coping methods.

It’s likely that being blind you have a better sense of memory because you rely on not only increased senses, but also memory of where things are or were in order to move about effectively. So, the guy Abor (was it?) could have been able to tell where the Cornucopia was and sense that something was amiss. I’m sure there were other forms of life around when the volcano went off and the snow started to flood down on them all. (Not sure, cause I haven’t actually read through these old games.) Animals go quiet or make a lot of noise trying to save themselves. Blind or not, you can tell that something’s wrong then. Someone who’s been hunting might realize this sooner, but so will those who have to rely on other senses like a blind kid. No animals making noise or animals making noises in a strange manner usually mean that something is wrong. First clue that something’s wrong in the area. With that much water coming down it wouldn’t be hard to be able to hear it or at least the damage it’s causing. Second clue that something’s wrong, likely to do with water or some force strong enough to damage the environment. The mind will more or less jump to the conclusion that since its water they need to get to high ground or far enough from is so that the water will be easier to deal with once it reaches them. Where? He might not know what the hell the terrain looks like, but he’s not so stupid as to forget all the walking and climbing he might’ve done. His body got exhausted walking up steep hills or struggling with climbing over rock faces. First inclination is to at least move in that direction, which wouldn’t be too hard to remember seeing as the arena for the games haven’t been said to be something the size of an entire state or anything. He might recall that the Cornucopia is probably the safest bet of anything extremely high for sure and head in a direction that will lead him to higher ground and the Cornucopia itself. There he can debate if he wants to stick with the high ground or go for the Cornucopia. Say the ground gets steeper and steeper and he has to use his hands more often to keep getting higher, he might choose to keep going there. But say he continues on the high ground and he knows the Cornucopia shouldn’t be too far away, but the ground doesn’t seem to be getting higher because it’s not taking any more energy from him to climb thus far. He might veer towards the Cornucopia instead. Thus he saves himself from drowning.

And unless you’re rendered unconscious there is always something you can do. You may not be able to move at all what-so-ever, but there’s the off chance that you might meet another tribute who you could convince to team up for a bit. You’re a tribute that knows a lot about edible plants and insects, another tribute is barely getting by when it comes to scraping together food. If you offer to help him find food in exchange for him keeping you alive, do you really think he’s going to kill you? Heck no. You can’t move, but you can find food, and if you guys get attacked you can be used as a pretty decent human shield. And when he kills everyone else, what can you do? Bite him to death? Easy kill. Or he could just keep you long enough to learn how to find food for himself and then kill you. And you’re going to go ‘Either way you’re going to die, so you might as well have the staff tell them they’re dead.’ but the truth is that you can still plan. Your body might be ‘dead’ so to speak, but your mind isn’t. The Hunger Games isn’t all about brute strength. Haymitch didn’t win by strength. He won because he outsmarted his opponents. You could still very well have a shot at winning.

Half of the fun of being able to participate in the Hunger Games (probably why people here don’t mind having their characters partake in an event where they have something like a 95% chance of dying) is being able to work their way out of a problem and stay alive as long as possible. It’s a challenge for any RPer, for sure, but a fun one. How can you survive? Are you smart enough and lucky enough to find a way to survive despite the odds against you? Can you challenge the games in your own way like Katniss/Peeta/Haymitch did? Can you manage to bend the rules to help you? Can you prove the age old saying of ‘brains over brawns’?

And to be honest… trying to use any kind of system is difficult. Extremely so. And usually when a system is used, it’s after the staff members have argued debated about it several times over, pointing out practically every single thing about it. Trust me… it’s a headache to make a system, and even more of a headache to get enough people to agree that it’ll work. And when it gets turned out… it’s an absolute pain to come up with a new one. It can get extremely frustrating to the point where you just want to give up and let someone else do it (which is hard because if you’re making the system it’s because no one else knows where to start or what to do and asked you to do it because you’re the only one who can make a decent one) or quit being a part of staff altogether. You also have to take into consideration that the staff have actual lives too. They have friends and family outside of this site that they hang out with and spend time with, as well as school with all it’s stressfully fun stuff, and for some, work even.

So, all in all, when it comes down to the realism in the Hunger Games and the system they have set up for it… it’s very well plausible and realistic.


[._.’’ Sorry for such a long post… … … I didn’t realize I had written this much until now… And sorry if I come off as harsh or mean or anything like that. If I did, it’s unintentional. I think I somehow got myself worked over this when I didn’t need to, and well… I was kind of bored… had nothing better to do. >.< Yes, I have no life, forgive me.]

~Mira

[Ray]

So, I'm not going to write as much as the others have said, but I'd just like to get my two cents in. Personally, I feel that the system, while some aspects of it are questionable, is actually pretty good for an RP site. I think the staff has done an amazing job at keeping the system fair and relatively realistic. I like the current way this site works, and I don't think there's a need to change anything, other than the necessary things that happen between games. The system we have now provides us with a lot of freedom, while still keeping it realistic, which is more than can be said for most sites.

[waffle]

(In response to wolf or rabbit)
I am really tired and mad today so I am not going to respond to the length of some of you. In the army they have medical attention withen hours of time. Also many people die from wounds in wars. Also you say that Heron would be able to emotionally get passed her lost legs, but people that have lost legs after wars (like 6 years after) are still in shock. I think that the level of stress in the games are the same as a war.

Respectfully-Waffle

[shrimp]

waffle:

If anything, Storm would have been able to support her, emotionally and physically, with the wound, and thus she might be able to cope with her loss of legs.

She never said that Heron would get past her lost legs. In fact, she might never get over the fact that they were burnt away. But Storm would have attempted to help her in the process - perhaps she got over it for a time (as in she didn't freak out every second about having no legs), but yes, it's not 100% realistic to state that she completely got over the no-leg stuff.

However, you're going on a completely different tangent - your goal of this was to have us evaluate the battle system, not attempt to thwart a part of someone's argument that really didn't have a whole lot to do with the overall objective. So I feel that you should simply read through what everyone's saying; they all have valid points and some of them help explain the points that you're trying to bring up as well.

[Eastern Orange]

You are under the misconception that human beings react the same way in certain situations, when this is by no mean the case. Don't try to pigeon hole people. The human psyche is an amazing thing and can pull people the most crap filled situations. Case in point, the guy who had to cut of his own arm because he was trapped under a rock. Guess what? He lived. Guess what he had to do? He had to climb up a canyon, with no arm.

Have you lost legs? Have you been to war? I'm guessing no to both questions. You have no evidence to support your claims besides pure conjecture. And honestly, does it even matter? Who cares that a blind boy won. Who cares that a girl with no legs might win. What does it matter besides that it isn't 'realistic', which, by the way, we don't really know because there has ever been a real Hunger Games. Who are you to decide that just because he is blind, or she is legless that they can't do anything and thus, must be killed? If it really bothers you that much, don't read the Hunger Game threads

[Prince Inigo]

As Ebi put it, I never said 100% that Heron would get over the leg loss. This is an exact reason why I do not make things 100%, I-know-it-all judgments unless I am 100%-200% sure know what I'm talking about, or I say it in a 'I thought' manner. Please read more closely next time. (And hence why I will not talk more about the leg business).
Also:

In the army they have medical attention withen hours of time.

Wounds can be 'infected' within hours of time. Just the mere fact that bacteria and viruses can get into the wounds quickly is a possibility for infection, hence an infection 'within hours of time'. Don't forget that in war, you're sweating, you're on the edge from fighting, and you're usually overall tired. (Hunger Games, sure, like war, only for like 23 other people, and you're not given explosives and guns). Not only that but even if you are infected, you're not going to die immediately, most likely. (Die immediately = the very second you get infected). So what's to say that Heron wouldn't survive two or so days with a wound infection until proper treatment? Perhaps her adrenaline could help her fight the infection until then. You won't know; I won't know; everyone else won't know until we get to the final fight. The only ones who mostly know her body is her body and, partially, herself. Yeah, sure, doctors can give you your fitness, but she probably didn't have that luxury. Mental and emotional power can only go so far (as in to encourage yourself to do better), but that doesn't mean it doesn't affect your health at all.

Note: read my message and see how many times I sound like I know what I'm talking about 100%. As I've said before, there is a reason why I don't put those things down. I'm no expert, and I don't claim to be. The mere reason why I am replying to this thread is because this sounds like a debate between "IT SHOULD BE THIS" vs. "It CAN be this." 'Can's and associate are your friends. I abuse them, pretty much, all the time.


-- Luna